Jeep TJ upgrades

[alan6271]

I'm planning on doing air lockers.  I had a couple questions I wondered if someone could answer:
1) I have a parts list below from 4wd.com.  Am I missing something yet?
2) Is this something that can be installed in a couple "wrench fest" sessions or should I hire it out?  If hire it out, any suggestions on who to do it?

I have some skid plates on here that I've been wanting to put on and since the Jeep will be in the air I thought it would be a good time to add them:

Part #ARBCKSA12 - Compact On-Board Air Compressor Kit
    Kit includes 12 volt compressor, complete wiring loom with air locker solenoid plug-in contacts, switches, air filter, mounting hardware, and comprehensive photo-illustrated installation guide.

Part #ARBRD100 - Dana 30 27 Spline 3.73 Up Air Locking Differential

Part #RUG16597.30 - Heavy Duty Differential Skid Plate
Part #TER4667100 - Oil Pan Skid Plate

[bullhed78]

ARB's are bad ass. Dana 30's are not. I know you have mentioned going to bigger tires in the future. The common consensus is a 35" tire is the limit of a D30. Some guys will swear a D30 will handle a 35" tire just fine while other guys will swear that a 35" tire will break a D30 axle shaft pulling out of the driveway. I personally have seen 3- D30 (front axle) shafts break and 1- D35 (rear axle) shaft break. When I say personally seen I mean witnessed it happen in front of my own eyes. One of the D30 shafts and the D35 shaft were on a TJ and were a direct result of WAY too much skinny pedal. It was a spectacular boom when the both broke at the same time. The other 2 D30 shafts were on a YJ that ran 35" tires with no problem for years until he locked the front end. He ended up converting his front end to TJ shafts and hasn't broke one since. I guess what I'm trying to say is factory axles have their weaknesses. Not that they are useless (Hell, I still run a factory D44 in the rear and D30 in the front) but bigger tires are going to exploit the weaknesses of factory axles. By the time you buy an ARB, upgraded axle shafts (IE: Chromoly or RCV), install heavy duty diff covers and possibly truss it you are going to have some major cash wrapped up into that axle. That doesn't even take into consideration the labor, blood, sweat and tears of doing it. You may want to seriously consider something like a complete upgraded axle like G2 or Dynatrac. I'm sure there are way more companies making them. Be prepared for sticker shock but when you take all things into consideration it isn't all that much more than upgrading your factory axle. The other option would be to put a lunchbox style locker in what you have and run it. Sorry for the long post but this is something that I have been considering with my LJ and am leaning toward buying new upgraded axles with a warranty.

[alan6271]

Thanks for the direction and advise.  I've often thought about a lunchbox locker but I've read they can be a bear on the road in the snow.  Some people have called them downright dangerous in the snow on a turn.  That's why I was really leaning towards an ARB that I could engage/disengage.

So, this is interesting:

Part Number: G/2D44TJ-FA488  -  TJ D44 Front Axle Assembly 4.88 ratio; With Air Locker

Is this what you're thinking?

[LPM606]

I don't know... I've had my lunchbox locker in the front of mine for what, 4 years now?  I don't know what all the fuss is about - mine is not a DD but neither is yours and Paul had a lunchbox in the front of his DD for years.  If you put it in 4WD on the street in snow the locker definitely affects the steering - I wouldn't want to do major street driving in big snow or anything, but I've never not gotten from here to there... I know ARB's are supposed to be bullet proof but I can tell you when I destroyed my front axle last year my little $300 Spartan Locker came through just fine... Of course, with the Cromolly axles in now, the locker may become the weak point... we'll see...

Of course, if you have the means, an ARB is a great choice and the select-able option is nice...

[gogolen]

ARB's are bad ass. Dana 30's are not. I know you have mentioned going to bigger tires in the future. The common consensus is a 35" tire is the limit of a D30. Some guys will swear a D30 will handle a 35" tire just fine while other guys will swear that a 35" tire will break a D30 axle shaft pulling out of the driveway. I personally have seen 3- D30 (front axle) shafts break and 1- D35 (rear axle) shaft break. When I say personally seen I mean witnessed it happen in front of my own eyes. One of the D30 shafts and the D35 shaft were on a TJ and were a direct result of WAY too much skinny pedal. It was a spectacular boom when the both broke at the same time. The other 2 D30 shafts were on a YJ that ran 35" tires with no problem for years until he locked the front end. He ended up converting his front end to TJ shafts and hasn't broke one since. I guess what I'm trying to say is factory axles have their weaknesses. Not that they are useless (Hell, I still run a factory D44 in the rear and D30 in the front) but bigger tires are going to exploit the weaknesses of factory axles. By the time you buy an ARB, upgraded axle shafts (IE: Chromoly or RCV), install heavy duty diff covers and possibly truss it you are going to have some major cash wrapped up into that axle. That doesn't even take into consideration the labor, blood, sweat and tears of doing it. You may want to seriously consider something like a complete upgraded axle like G2 or Dynatrac. I'm sure there are way more companies making them. Be prepared for sticker shock but when you take all things into consideration it isn't all that much more than upgrading your factory axle. The other option would be to put a lunchbox style locker in what you have and run it. Sorry for the long post but this is something that I have been considering with my LJ and am leaning toward buying new upgraded axles with a warranty.

There is so much wrong and misguided information in this post it makes my head hurt. I'll post more at lunch when I actually have the time to do it on the computer and not this stupid phone.

[bullhed78]

I will be interested to see what your thoughts are. I don't beleive I gave any bad information. The only failures I spoke of was failures I've seen with my own eyes. I beleive you are doing axles in your jeep which leads me to beleive you know there are weaknesses in factory axles. Granted you are running a V8. There are ways of doing axle swaps cheaper than buying a complete new axle but that takes knowledge and resources. Opinions on jeep builds differ. That's what makes jeeps cool. Everyone builds them the way best see fit so you never see two jeeps alike.

[bullhed78]

Alan, is your jeep a 5 speed manual or 3 speed auto? 4.88 gears are awfully steep. What gear ratio do you have right now? I know a few guys that are running lunchbox lockers and are happy with them. I put one in the front of mine but that didn't end well. It was a prototype and let's just say they needed to do a whole lot more R&D on it. If you go with a known brand like Spartan, Richmond or Aussie you should be good to go.

[gogolen]

I will be interested to see what your thoughts are. I don't beleive I gave any bad information. The only failures I spoke of was failures I've seen with my own eyes. I beleive you are doing axles in your jeep which leads me to beleive you know there are weaknesses in factory axles. Granted you are running a V8. There are ways of doing axle swaps cheaper than buying a complete new axle but that takes knowledge and resources. Opinions on jeep builds differ. That's what makes jeeps cool. Everyone builds them the way best see fit so you never see two jeeps alike.

The G2 axle upgrade you mentioned is only a marginal (if that) upgrade.  Everything from the inner C's out is the exact same as what he's running today, which still limits him to 35" tires.  Axle shaft u-joints, ball joints, brakes, and unit bearings are all limiting factors too, not just ring and pinion size.  The only things gained by going to that G2 front axle would be 30 spline inners, and a 8.125" diameter ring gear, oh and the availability to run 5.13 gears oooooooooooooooooh.  You can get 30 spline inners for a D30. A HP30 can be had for about $100, is bolt in, an is very comparable to the strength of a LP44 because your pushing on the drive side of the gear vs. the coast side. So unless you "need" 5.13 gears, you'd be throwing your money away for the sake of having a D44.  I suspect though for the type of wheeling and the tire size that Alan will run his LP30 will serve him fine, if anything I'd get a set of chromo's and call it good.  I've flogged the living snot out of mine and only spit out one u-joint cap that was due to get changed anyway.  I did however have a ring and pinion failure, but that was not due to the ring and pinion that was a problem with the early Ox locker design in which the 1/4-28 bolts that hold the end cap of the locker on backed out.  I've since replaced those with the newer end cap and bolt retainers so this is no longer an issue.  I am doing front and rear axle swaps in my jeep, along with an entirely new suspension, but not because of the limitations of the current axles, because of the tire size I want to run and the places I want to go.  If I was content to stay on 35's I would simply swap out an 8.8 in the rear and call it a day, but I'm not, so I'm not. 

Alan, you will be quite pleased with the ARB for the front, having a selectable is a very nice option.  Add chromoly shafts to your shopping list, although you can always upgrade those later.  You didn't mention a rear locker are you going ARB on that as well? 

[alan6271]

Alan, is your jeep a 5 speed manual or 3 speed auto? 4.88 gears are awfully steep. What gear ratio do you have right now? I know a few guys that are running lunchbox lockers and are happy with them. I put one in the front of mine but that didn't end well. It was a prototype and let's just say they needed to do a whole lot more R&D on it. If you go with a known brand like Spartan, Richmond or Aussie you should be good to go.

Hey Scott, It's a 3 speed auto.  The only thing I was worried about on the Lunchbox was turning in the snow while on the road.  I've read it just wants to keep on a goin straight.

[alan6271]

Scott, Ryan, and Ed thank you so much for all the advice.  Any advice from you guys is like a 1st year medical student listening to three very seasoned surgeons talk about how to work on a patient.  It's fascinating. 

Most of what you said Ryan is really like a whole different language.

So while up in Grayling I did talk to Scott about bigger tires.  I have 31" now.  I doubt I'd go any bigger than 35" ever and since these 31" are brand new it's going to be a couple years. 

I think I need the ARB locker because there was one occasion I just couldn't make it up a hill that Ed climbed right up and over and once I got stuck in a snowdrift and was the only once that was stuck.  Luckily Ed was on the wrong trail so he came back down anyway which got me off the hook on that one otherwise I would have been the only one winching up.  I think lockers would have made all the difference.

Ryan, as far as rear lockers I'm on the fence on that.  I've heard some people say do it and some say don't.  I would be open to your guys opinion on that.

I'm not thrilled with changing the axle.  If I do the front and change the gear ratio I'd have to buy a new rear one too or at least a new gear set to match the front.  Is that correct?

Thanks again for all the advice.  Sounds like we have some discussion Sunday.